Starter barely turns

[leeroy]

Our '53 FMD Hyacinth is not wired up stock. Wires off solenoid go to a simple on off switch. Engage the starter, push switch down, she starts, and you disengage starter and switch.
Two days ago while tractor was off the starter spun on its own (not engaged)(or in gear!). Not sure if i forgot it on when I first started, or hit it accidentally. When I tried to start it there was nothing. After fiddling with wires and tapping solenoid, or maybe just time sitting, she started up fine.
Baled up 150 bales and did great.
Stopped to pick up bales, afterwards she would not start. Tried again this morning, still no luck.
Tried going direct from battery and another tractor and it seems like the starter is sticking? turning real slow ? for lack of a better term.
We will likely pull start her to get her back under cover, but hoping for explanation and advice.

[John b]

Hi, was the starter spinning for long? If it was there's a chance it got hot and it's burned out. Take the starter off see if it turns freely by hand, if it does check the brushes see if they are ok. Sometimes a good cleanup will sort them, including all the electrial and earth connections but if it was accidentally left running there's a good chance it got hot and melted the coating on the windings inside. If you get stuck for one (i'll probably get abuse for saying this!) and you aren't worried about it being original one of my majors has a starter from land rover series diesel on it, bolts straight on and doesn't need the starter lever, just a push button on the dash. They are usually easier to find and cheaper than a major starter and might get you out of a hole until you can sort out a good original one
John

[John b]

Just noticed ypu are in USA so the land rover starter might not be so common! Might be worth looking for another starter that will fit if you can't get yours sorted straight away
John

[Billy26F5]

Look at the complete circuit and check for trouble. If you can return to the original setup do so, as it will be simpler to fit stuff well. You might be needing new brushes, but check everything, leave the starter to the end.
Sandy

[leeroy]

Thank you both! The starter may have been running 10 minutes or so.
She pull started fine and is under cover. I'll be checking her over and will update and have more questions too!

[John b]

You may be lucky and find its just the brushes that have worn down, good luck
John

[leeroy]

While researching parts for starter I stumbled on this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGPYAgCx6Lc
A wind up starter. Never knew any such starter existed.

[Billy26F5]

I've seen this video too, not that common, nor was the inertia starter sold by Ford as an option (I've only seen it in manuals).
Sandy

[leeroy]

Will this fit the bill? https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford ... RK403.html

[Billy26F5]

Looks fine, but check everything when you get it just to be sure it's right.
Sandy

[leeroy]

Thanks Sandy.

[leeroy]

Had some time today to revisit this. Had a solenoid here that appeared unused. Installed it with same results nothing.
Decided to pull starter as suggested. It turned free by hand and spun fine when hooked up directly to battery.
Turns out the jumpers I had used a few days back had a loose cable.
To recap the way it has been wired: positive to earth/ground, negative battery cable to large top post on solenoid.
Cable off bottom of solenoid to starter. Small wire on same top post to switch, back to small post on solenoid.
I'm guessing first solenoid got toasted when the starter was left on, and the second one was not good.
Any way to easily test solenoid?
By the way, this tractor starts easily on that first revolution.

[John b]

Put your jumper cables onto a battery, put the negative cable onto the solenoid body, touch the positive cable onto the small post on the solenoid and it should click. The click is the electronic switch making the connection between the 2 large posts that operates your starter
John

[Billy26F5]

Put your jumper cables onto a battery, put the negative cable onto the solenoid body, touch the positive cable onto the small post on the solenoid

The positive terminal needs to be on the body, and the negative one on the small terminal, as it's a positive earth system.
Sandy

[John b]

Sorry, i was meaning test it like that if it's not attatched to the tractor, didn't make that very clear!
John

[leeroy]

Thank you both. Will be light enough here soon to commence testing. Both solenoids are 4 post, if that has any relevance.

[John b]

Depending on the solenoid type the 4th post could be an earth or a second live that goes to the coil on a petrol engine (negative earth vehicle), the posts should be marked
John

[Billy26F5]

Could you post a pic of your solenoid? It will then it will be clearer what's what and how you can test it.
Sandy

[leeroy]

Sandy, this is a link to a similar coil. The one that was on it and the second one I tried are the same.
https://www.autozone.com/batteries-star ... 365198_0_0
I will try to get a picture posted of ours and how I have it wired.

[Billy26F5]

The one that you had in the link was 24V. You need a 12V one, preferably one like the original Lucas one, with a push button at one end and three terminals at the other (two large insulated terminals for the battery and starter leads, and one for the negative coil connection from the starter switch, the coil is earthed to the housing). Here's Billy's one (sorry, not the best pic; if you want a better one I'll take one):

Sandy

[leeroy]

I'll look at the "new" one I have for markings. I didnt notice the linked one is 24v. I dont think the one here is 24 but will report back.
I will order the correct Lucas one but hope to get her running on what we have as it was starting before.
The 1st coil failed that click test with jumper cables, the new, or 2nd one does click.

[leeroy]

Sandy that picture is good, thanks!
Unrelated: Is that the horn in the picture? We have wondered what the horn sound is. Ours is from a1993 Dodge pickup.

[leeroy]

Sandy maybe the one I found and installed is 24 volts?!
The battery is 12.8. 12.8 on battery side of coil and on both sides of switch when switched on. 12.8 back to small post, but only shows 2 volts on starter side of coil.
This solenoid did click when jumpers used directly to it.
I feel like I am missing something simple, and that it should go with this solenoid, since it clicks?

[leeroy]

it is marked 12 volt and battery post is marked. now I cant get this one to click on jumpers?

[John b]

Is it earthed properly? Use a jumper cable from the battery to the body of the solenoid to check (positive side of battery if its positive earth)
John