The following was sent to me by my friend Norman, take the time to listen to the interview highlighted in blue.
Gerald
FOLKS,
TAKE THE TIME TO "STOP" what you're doing and listen to this radio
broadcast extract.
Don't dismiss it out of hand.
Subject: FW: 2GB Radio: Alan Jones interview with Lord Mockton on the
Copenhagen Summit
Have a listen to this radio interview of Alan Jones with Lord Monckton
on the Copenhagen Summit.
It is a very important warning about the climate scare, and the
anti-democratic push coming from the Copenhagen Treaty:
http://2gb.com.au/index2.php?option=com ... ew&id=4998
Details of the 20 -page draft Copenhagen Treaty are being concealed
from the people.
The science behind Global Warming has collapsed
The Treaty has been kept secret in their usual way, but discovered in
a “note by the Secretariat”
The word “Government” is explicitly referred to in the Treaty, with
powers for a communistic international Government – similar to the EU
Commissars, but on a global scale
This proposed World Government is designed to take over all global free markets
The Copenhagen Treaty will take precedence over the Australian Constitution.
The is NO provision to exit the Copenhagen Treaty [draft]
Lord Monckton is urging people around the world to spread the word
Monckton is a former student of mine when I was lecturing at the University of Wales in Cardiff.
Norman.
So much for Global warming
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The Swanndri Guy
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Hi Norman,when it comes to "Global warming" and "climate change" with the United Nations we have to consider what is there true motivation, is it really "The environment" or something else . Any undemocratic organisation that supports these ideas like this without peer review and debate (at all levels) does not get my support. Also consider that there are people within the UN that have there own agenda, not in the best interest of the environment. We all as individuals have to do our bit to protect the envinonment, minimise our impact, but do we need organisations like the UN to tell us and our individual governments what to do and how to pay for it?TSG.
Last edited by The Swanndri Guy on Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Folks,
A plea for caution. The problem is that science and politics get mixed up. There will be people on one side who will swear that human behaviour is causing a significant climate change and that we're all done for. There will be people on the other side who will swear that it's all nonsense and part of a conspiracy. And most of us are caught somewhere in the middle.
The fact is that (at least) 99% of all people on Earth do not have sufficient background in science to go directly the source: the true scientific literature. Instead, those 99% have to rely on the media, the internet, etc and they get to hear a version that either biased, or oversimplified, or both.
Because I have a university background in biophysics and chemistry, I was taught some of the machinery one needs to make sense of climate science (lots of math, lots of physics, dynamical systems, etc). Some years ago, when the debate started, I made a conscious effort to study the scientific literature. Obviously, science is subject to constant peer review. Every article on sites like http://arxiv.org/ or from a magazine like Nature is subject to constant criticism, as it should be.
Anyway, after making a study of it, the conclusion I drew from the literature was:
"The climate is warming in some places, most notably the Northern Arctic. It seems to be cooling in some other places. It is unclear if these two trends cancel each other out, but it appears that the warming trend is slightly on the upper hand. It seems to become drier in a lot of places - sweet water supply is likely to become a problem in many places as time progresses. The cause of the changes is unknown. The effect of Man's activities on the changes is unknown. What we should do about it is unknown. If and when it will stop is unknown."
This conclusion is my conclusion and it is worth what you paid for it: pretty much nothing. Despite my background, I am not a scientist nor am I part of the scientific community. There will be scientists out there who agree with my conclusion, and there will be scientists out there who will vehemently disagree.
About conspiracy theories: I never believed in them, and I never will. About fearmongering (the end of the world is near and all that): ditto.
As for changing certain aspects of human behaviour: I'm all for it. I don't need a climate debate to tell me that it's a good idea to use wind, water and solar energy (because they're clean and everlasting) and that it is a bad idea to continue to rely on natural resources that can, in principle, be depleted and which might lead to conflict. Added to that, obviously the use of fossil fuels is not clean. All that is just common sense.
To close off, this is a topic that might lead to a heated debate. I don't mind a heated debate, but let's make sure it doesn't get beyond "a spirited discussion among friends".
Cheers!
Oscar
A plea for caution. The problem is that science and politics get mixed up. There will be people on one side who will swear that human behaviour is causing a significant climate change and that we're all done for. There will be people on the other side who will swear that it's all nonsense and part of a conspiracy. And most of us are caught somewhere in the middle.
The fact is that (at least) 99% of all people on Earth do not have sufficient background in science to go directly the source: the true scientific literature. Instead, those 99% have to rely on the media, the internet, etc and they get to hear a version that either biased, or oversimplified, or both.
Because I have a university background in biophysics and chemistry, I was taught some of the machinery one needs to make sense of climate science (lots of math, lots of physics, dynamical systems, etc). Some years ago, when the debate started, I made a conscious effort to study the scientific literature. Obviously, science is subject to constant peer review. Every article on sites like http://arxiv.org/ or from a magazine like Nature is subject to constant criticism, as it should be.
Anyway, after making a study of it, the conclusion I drew from the literature was:
"The climate is warming in some places, most notably the Northern Arctic. It seems to be cooling in some other places. It is unclear if these two trends cancel each other out, but it appears that the warming trend is slightly on the upper hand. It seems to become drier in a lot of places - sweet water supply is likely to become a problem in many places as time progresses. The cause of the changes is unknown. The effect of Man's activities on the changes is unknown. What we should do about it is unknown. If and when it will stop is unknown."
This conclusion is my conclusion and it is worth what you paid for it: pretty much nothing. Despite my background, I am not a scientist nor am I part of the scientific community. There will be scientists out there who agree with my conclusion, and there will be scientists out there who will vehemently disagree.
About conspiracy theories: I never believed in them, and I never will. About fearmongering (the end of the world is near and all that): ditto.
As for changing certain aspects of human behaviour: I'm all for it. I don't need a climate debate to tell me that it's a good idea to use wind, water and solar energy (because they're clean and everlasting) and that it is a bad idea to continue to rely on natural resources that can, in principle, be depleted and which might lead to conflict. Added to that, obviously the use of fossil fuels is not clean. All that is just common sense.
To close off, this is a topic that might lead to a heated debate. I don't mind a heated debate, but let's make sure it doesn't get beyond "a spirited discussion among friends".
Cheers!
Oscar
I believe it is known that average global sea levels have risen over the past century and continue to rise at ~2mm/year. So whatever the cause, we in UK particularly on the E coast where the land is sinking, can look forward to spending more on flood defences.
I think it is also generally accepted that by 2050 there will be 3 billion more people to feed, which tells me that we need to move to more sustainable less wasteful agriculture. I like the idea of running my Dexta on wood - we have alot of that!
Thanks Oscar, for you moderating contribution!
All the best,
I think it is also generally accepted that by 2050 there will be 3 billion more people to feed, which tells me that we need to move to more sustainable less wasteful agriculture. I like the idea of running my Dexta on wood - we have alot of that!
Thanks Oscar, for you moderating contribution!
All the best,
Last edited by Bensdexta on Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Bensdexta - 1961 working for a living!
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The Swanndri Guy
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I must apologize if I have offended anyone on the forum, that was never my intent, but the problem here is the debate over on "climate change" here is polarized to the point that no one is allowed to disagree late alone question the science behind it. 
I think Oscars reply sums up the situation much better.TSG.
I think Oscars reply sums up the situation much better.TSG.Fordson PETROL Dexta
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TSG,
I don't think anyone on here would take offence. The only thing that could cause serious problems would be the mention of "The Grey Menace" or the "Green Manure"
The human race has not been on this planet long enough to experience all its cyclic changes. It has been warming up and cooling down for millions of years. Where I am sitting now was once the sea bed of a tropical sea.
Global warming and cooling is a fact of life and we don't know, and cannot know all about it. We talk about the effect of man on the system but do nothing to control it. Most of the major countries of this world pay lip service to the problem and then export all their "dirty" work to the third world, India or China, where pollution is increasing.
I am not a great believer in government scientific study either. I was once handed a book, about three inches thick, researched by a government funded scientific group who were paid many thousands of pounds to address the problem of wild life mortality during harvesting operations. The group was led by an eminent university doctor.
We were asked to read the book and incorporate its conclusions into our courses for machinery operators. One of the conclusions that stick in my mind is that all forage and combine harvesters should have a chain mounted some way in front of the cutter bar. This chain would rattle and scare wild life from the area of danger.
Wonder if they would have heard it over the noise of the combine.
There is a political message in all this. "Global warming means we can increase taxes". These same governments allow vast areas of agricultural land to be covered with concrete to allow shopping malls to be built or housing estates to be put in green sites, then throw up their hands in horror when the runoff water creates floods or overloads the Victorian drainage systems.
All seems to be in the name of " THE GOD, MONEY"
I cannot believe that, as has been put forward by some people in the press over here, that dinosaurs passing wind, contributed to the destruction of their world millions of years ago.
Ann and I, for many years, have tried to reduce our impact on the world by re-cycling and keeping our waste to a minimum. We use compost bins and put the compost back into the land. We compost waste paper and all vegetable waste.
We keep our heating level low because it is good for the planet and our wallets.
Yet businesses do not seem to do anything. I fitted a new toothbrush head yesterday. It came in a carton of plastic and cardboard, which contained another cardboard and plastic package. All this was waste.
I get small parts from my suppliers like transistors. An order for two hundred generates a large waste bin full of plastic as each comes in a plastic packet, individually wrapped in a plastic package, then put in a polythene bag, put in a paper bag, then in a cardboard box filled with plastic bags full of air. The transistors themselves come from China and cost all of .20p each.
I don't think anyone on here would take offence. The only thing that could cause serious problems would be the mention of "The Grey Menace" or the "Green Manure"
The human race has not been on this planet long enough to experience all its cyclic changes. It has been warming up and cooling down for millions of years. Where I am sitting now was once the sea bed of a tropical sea.
Global warming and cooling is a fact of life and we don't know, and cannot know all about it. We talk about the effect of man on the system but do nothing to control it. Most of the major countries of this world pay lip service to the problem and then export all their "dirty" work to the third world, India or China, where pollution is increasing.
I am not a great believer in government scientific study either. I was once handed a book, about three inches thick, researched by a government funded scientific group who were paid many thousands of pounds to address the problem of wild life mortality during harvesting operations. The group was led by an eminent university doctor.
We were asked to read the book and incorporate its conclusions into our courses for machinery operators. One of the conclusions that stick in my mind is that all forage and combine harvesters should have a chain mounted some way in front of the cutter bar. This chain would rattle and scare wild life from the area of danger.
Wonder if they would have heard it over the noise of the combine.
There is a political message in all this. "Global warming means we can increase taxes". These same governments allow vast areas of agricultural land to be covered with concrete to allow shopping malls to be built or housing estates to be put in green sites, then throw up their hands in horror when the runoff water creates floods or overloads the Victorian drainage systems.
All seems to be in the name of " THE GOD, MONEY"
I cannot believe that, as has been put forward by some people in the press over here, that dinosaurs passing wind, contributed to the destruction of their world millions of years ago.
Ann and I, for many years, have tried to reduce our impact on the world by re-cycling and keeping our waste to a minimum. We use compost bins and put the compost back into the land. We compost waste paper and all vegetable waste.
We keep our heating level low because it is good for the planet and our wallets.
Yet businesses do not seem to do anything. I fitted a new toothbrush head yesterday. It came in a carton of plastic and cardboard, which contained another cardboard and plastic package. All this was waste.
I get small parts from my suppliers like transistors. An order for two hundred generates a large waste bin full of plastic as each comes in a plastic packet, individually wrapped in a plastic package, then put in a polythene bag, put in a paper bag, then in a cardboard box filled with plastic bags full of air. The transistors themselves come from China and cost all of .20p each.
Fordson Tractor Pages, now officially linked to: Fordson Tractor Club of Australia, Ford and Fordson Association and Blue Force.
Brian
Brian
Here in the U.S. we have large outdoor electronic signs (billboards) along the roadway. I don't know how much electricity these signs consume, but it has to be much more than a large house. A total waste in my opinion. But between my opinion and their money, guess who wins?
Terry
Terry
--
1964 Fordson Super Dexta
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Brian's post is valuable (and a good read too, as usual). I'd like to comment on his observations regarding gov't funded research. All research is funded, and obviously that implies the risk of research with a preconceived agenda. Personally, I doubt that gov't funded research is better or worse than research funded through other means. This raises the question: can you trust science? My personal answer: yes, you can. But not blindly. For every scientist who is susceptible to hidden agendas, there are ten others who will not waver. Fifteen minutes on Google will give anyone a fair representation of what the scientific community's stance is on any issue. There is a caveat, though 
. Wide support for something does not make that something "true". But as a rule of thumb, the more sources you check, the lesser the chance of being misinformed.
. Wide support for something does not make that something "true". But as a rule of thumb, the more sources you check, the lesser the chance of being misinformed.I suspect that governments directly or indirectly are the largest funders of research by a considerable margin, particularly of longer term 'blue sky' research. By and large industry doesn't do much of that as the pay-back is too long and shareholders like instant returns 
All the evidence is that research is good for generating wealth but it's a long-term business with pay-back often measured in decades rather than years, something which the UK government would do well to remember as it has consistenly cut research over the past 10 years, to the detriment of UK industry. In terms of R&D spending as % GDP, UK ranks 15th behind El Salvador and Togo. China's spending on R&D is rising rapidly and in $terms is now 3rd to US and Japan. I read that the average chinese IQ is higher than for US. How long before US limits immigration based on IQ
All the best,
All the evidence is that research is good for generating wealth but it's a long-term business with pay-back often measured in decades rather than years, something which the UK government would do well to remember as it has consistenly cut research over the past 10 years, to the detriment of UK industry. In terms of R&D spending as % GDP, UK ranks 15th behind El Salvador and Togo. China's spending on R&D is rising rapidly and in $terms is now 3rd to US and Japan. I read that the average chinese IQ is higher than for US. How long before US limits immigration based on IQ
All the best,
Last edited by Bensdexta on Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bensdexta - 1961 working for a living!
I think Brian has hit the nail on the head, here in the US we have a terrible sickness going on, a sickness of GREED. People will do almost anything for it's pleasures. Not only here but in all parts of the world! A lot of people will sell out in the name of their god Money.Brian wrote:
All seems to be in the name of " THE GOD, MONEY"
Brian,
You are spot on!
See ya
Mark
When all else fails, get a bigger hammer
Mark
When all else fails, get a bigger hammer
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Mike Kuscher
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Well, as usual I sat here and read these posts, following the debate but keeping my own council.
I started to read 'someones' post and was thinking it makes the usual sense, then I started laughing.
I quote
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
Mike
I started to read 'someones' post and was thinking it makes the usual sense, then I started laughing.
I quote
An electric toothbrushI fitted a new toothbrush head yesterday
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot
Mike
Nobody is perfect and I want to be a Nobody.
Well, its a bit like all these electric buggies and wheel chairs! When you have to have something for your better health then global warming takes second place! 
My beautiful, blonde and cuddly dentist advised it and my slim blonde, "with the leather thigh boots and the commanding voice with an Austrian accent" orthodontist also ordered me to get one in a firm voice! Ooooooooooh I went like a big jelly!
Been using one for a couple of years now and my dental health has really improved.
My beautiful, blonde and cuddly dentist advised it and my slim blonde, "with the leather thigh boots and the commanding voice with an Austrian accent" orthodontist also ordered me to get one in a firm voice! Ooooooooooh I went like a big jelly!
Been using one for a couple of years now and my dental health has really improved.
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Brian
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Does anyone make a "solar" powered electric tooth brush for the "environmentaly friendly consumer", like the solar powered torch? 
TSG.
TSG.
Last edited by The Swanndri Guy on Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dandy Dave
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I can attest to that remark. Seems we are raising a bunch of dumb and lazy kids over here these days. Stick them in front of a TV and give them a computer game. This country is going to the dogs in a hurry, especially with the bone heads now in Washington. I didn't vote for em. But they got in anyway.Bensdexta wrote: I read that the average chinese IQ is higher than for US. How long before US limits immigration based on IQ
All the best,
Now back to Fordsons, because there are a few intelligent Americans left that know somthing good when they find it. Although many are passing on due to old age. The smartest kid that I have met in a long time is over here from Germany on a 6 month visa. I took him with me to a show in Kent, Connecticut. I even had him running several power shovels. What a super wrench. He's 15 and a kid after my own heart. Dandy Dave!Have a Fordsonful day Folks!
1960 Fordson Power Major
1960 Fordson Power Major
I wonder if anyone takes into account the energy and resources used to make goods that don't use much energy or resources?The Swanndri Guy wrote:Does anyone make a "solar" powered electric tooth brush for the environmentaly friendly consumer, like the solar powered torch?
E.g. - electric cars are cheaper to run. Really? What do they cost to make, what resources for charging stations, and where does the electricity come from in the first place? Ah, yes. Power stations.
Windmills are seemingly just as bad...