Water pump not fitting correctly??

[Nick]

I recently bought a water pump from a company for my 58 major, which has a super major engine in it. I have installed it and filled the rad with water, and it leaks quite a bit of water out of the top left hand (as you look from the front). I have taken it off and made sure the gasket etc is lined up and its on the right way, which it is and it still leaks.
Are there two types of water pump for the majors, or is it faulty? I remember i had a similar problem on my other major, but some hylomar did the job.
Anyone else had the same problem?

[Nick]

It seems its just me thats had this problem then

[Kiwi Kev]

I remember I had a similar problem on my other major, but some hylomar did the job.

Don't know why it may be leaking, rust?, warped?
but if hylomar works

Kiwi Kev

[Nick]

its a brand new pump, but im going to take it off again and have another look, just doesnt seem the right shape ....... we'll see

[super6954]

its a brand new pump, but im going to take it off again and have another look, just doesnt seem the right shape ....... we'll see

Hi Nick
I was just thinking in the back of my mind a bell started ringing when I read this again I think there was 3 types of water pump for the majors. there was an early type and a late type I think there was a difference of a small water hole in the casting or something like that between the two types and they don't cross over . The third was for power steering but it had a longer nose on it to allow for extra pulleys But that won't bother you it would be miles wrong on the front, also They are rare and not re produced as far as i know. The other thing I was wondering is if thats the motor we think came from the truck/Lorry is that pump different again. I guess we need Brian /or somebody to confirm about the different type of tractor pump or can you see the differences of a small hole or waterway between the two pumps you have.
I hope this load of rambling has an answer for you somewhere .
Regards Robert

[JC]

I think you're right, Robert.
Read this, Nick.

http://www.fordsontractorpages.nl/ubb/F ... 00275.html

[Nick]

This is interesting and confirms my suspicions, but people like agriline only list one pump for all, unless they have made one that fits all. Like i said it looks like its coming out from where the small hole to the block is.
This is on my other major robert, the one with the super major engine and minimec pump. Ive just been and looked at both tractors pumps, which are both new and where this one doesnt fit, the one on my first major looks different. I wonder if ive got the correct pumps, but on the wrong engines if you see what i mean.

[super6954]

This is interesting and confirms my suspicions, but people like agriline only list one pump for all, unless they have made one that fits all. Like i said it looks like its coming out from where the small hole to the block is.
This is on my other major robert, the one with the super major engine and minimec pump. Ive just been and looked at both tractors pumps, which are both new and where this one doesnt fit, the one on my first major looks different. I wonder if ive got the correct pumps, but on the wrong engines if you see what i mean.

Hi Nick
The biggest problem we all find with the majors is there is so much mix and match of parts over the years. I do not no if any body makes the two diferent types of pump as repro parts even. I just new the problem existed and may of been lucky all these years .
Not wanting to rubbish any parts suppliers with this comment but I think you will probably find that unless they or a staff member works with particular tractors they are sometimes blind with what fit's and the differences. They read a book or computer screen and if thats what it says fits thats what you get. when it doesn't fit they say book said and thats what you got tough . Ive seen some suppliers list hyd top parts that fit all majors but in truth its the top shaft arms and guts from a super top and they are different from an ordinary or power I don't think they will fit and work .
I wish i could remember where i Found out about the pump difference as it was before my time on here and if it was linked to certain serial no's/ age we could check block numbers and find out the answer for you .
Regards Robert

[super6954]

Hi Nick
just found this in Brians most loved source of info the I&T manual It says at serial no 1425097 that the water pump and gasket changed the water passages in pump and block are different make sure that correct pump and gasket are used .
Regards Robert

[Nick]

Hi robert, thanks for the replies. May have to get a new water pump i reckon, not the end of the world, just annoying. It may be that its just the wrong gasket, but knowing my luck ive got the only engine in the world with a different pump fitting. i will look at the weekend and report back......

[JC]

My info agrees with your I&T manual, Robert. The port size and gasket changed when the Mark 2 engine was introduced. I looked at the New Holland web site and it shows a different water pump after April 1957, so they agree, too. The strange thing is that the water pump for power steering is the same from 1952 to 1964

[Dandy Dave]

My Power Major has factory power steering and a Mark II engine. Now you have me wondering? Would it be only the casting is different and the bearing and seal will interchange? Or is it a whole different animal? Dandy Dave!

[super6954]

Hi Dave
A friend of mine had a power steering waterpump on his bench one day I think the centre shaft is longer and the boss where the belt pulley bolts to the fan hub is longer I think that the casting may be the same as the other major ones. All I know is if it't messes up it's like rocking horse poo to replace it
Regards Robert

[BarryM]

Dave & Robert,
Recently fitted a new pump to my 1961 Farm Major with Power Steering. It was the standard pump from Bepco. I then had to press the boss off and the pulley (which is quite different for Power Steering) fitted behind the boss. I don't know whether it is the same as the English version, but in Australia there were two types of Power Steering, and mine is the Australian version which I am lead to believe was made by Monro Wylie. And, yes Robert, those Water Pump Pulleys for Power Steering are hard to find.

[Dandy Dave]

I know that with most waterpumps I have worked on, If you have the means, all you need to do is press it apart and replace the bearing and seal. I've done my share. So far, my Power Major water pump does not leak, but it is good to know that they are different if it ever starts to. Thanks, Dandy Dave!

[JC]

Speaking of bearings and seals, New Holland shows a different seal for the power steering water pump than the normal one. Anyone know why?

DD, does your Power Major have a Mk.II engine, or did your keyboard type one less "I" than your fingers did?

[super6954]

Ok guys it looks as if the center casting shaft and bearings are the same from numbers in my power major parts book I have no info on the seals so it may be possible to change the pulley boss over to make the standard pump work for power steering as Barry M says just don't break the pulley boss. Maybe the seals are a bit bigger in the power steering waterpump to allow for the extra stain with the long nosed boss and extra belts.
I Think we need a visit from Brian to see what he knows and sort this out for us as he's probably dealt with this before
Regards Robert

[Dandy Dave]

Speaking of bearings and seals, New Holland shows a different seal for the power steering water pump than the normal one. Anyone know why?

DD, does your Power Major have a Mk.II engine, or did your keyboard type one less "I" than your fingers did?

You need glasses mate? When I look back, I wrote " Mark II." The engine is original to the tractor. Dandy Dave!

[Nick]

So do you reckon that the water pumps differ from single o-ring liner blocks to double o-ring liner blocks? cos the one that is leaking is a double o-ring block. i still cant get it to seal and the gasket is ok and not broken. i would assume that if i order another one, it will be exactly the same so i think im going to have to alter the one ive got

[JC]

It looks like the same water pump was used from 4/59 until the end of production. The 2 o-ring liners came out in 2/61. Your new water pump must have the small port and the block must have the big one. Let us know what you find out.
I wonder if there's any chance that some parts suppliers sell the early water pump and others sell the late one?

DD
I've got glasses, but I was thinking that they might need to be a little stronger I would swear that I only see two "I"s in both of your posts.

[Nick]

yeah i suppose different wholesalers sell different ones, and come to think of it, the two i bought are from different places. So the port in the block and the pump have to be the same size?
JC it would make sense what you said about the port on the block being bigger, i will do some fiddling and see .......

[Dandy Dave]

It looks like the same water pump was used from 4/59 until the end of production. The 2 o-ring liners came out in 2/61. Your new water pump must have the small port and the block must have the big one. Let us know what you find out.
I wonder if there's any chance that some parts suppliers sell the early water pump and others sell the late one?

DD
I've got glasses, but I was thinking that they might need to be a little stronger I would swear that I only see two "I"s in both of your posts.

A 1960 Power Major Sports a Mark 2 engine. So yes, You see two. Dandy Dave!

[JC]

Nick,
I've got a Mk.III block and water pump and the bypass port measures about 1/2" by 1". I thought I had a Mk. I water pump that I could measure, but I can't seem to find it.

Dave,
I was just messin' with ya. The Mark III engine was introduced in Aug. of 1958. with engine number 1481091. I thought that your engine may have been changed at some point, but I should have known that yours would be all original.

[Dandy Dave]

Nick,
I've got a Mk.III block and water pump and the bypass port measures about 1/2" by 1". I thought I had a Mk. I water pump that I could measure, but I can't seem to find it.

Dave,
I was just messin' with ya. The Mark III engine was introduced in Aug. of 1958. with engine number 1481091. I thought that your engine may have been changed at some point, but I should have known that yours would be all original.

Everything but the orange paint on the Grills... Dandy Dave!

[JC]

Everything but the orange paint on the Grills... Dandy Dave!

I guess we can let that slide, because you have the original Clear Hooters